Hans Kellner Dot Com :: a mighty fine website!

For a good explanation of how poison oak causes a reaction, check out: http://waynesword.palomar.edu/ww0802.htm
It includes a good discussion on the immunology involved and makes mention.

quaternium was also the word used by the late C.G.Jung to formulate the existence of events without apparent cause and effect,which when combined with synchronicity and coincidence formed a four way vision of events or, a quarternio.

Regardless of what it contains, it cured my poison ivy in two days.

Is there a typo on the Zanfel 2nd article page ?
It says "Technu ingredients", but appears to
indeed be Zanfel ingredients.

Oops, fixed the typo. (thanks Paul).

I read your article with interest.
Thank you.
My question is,
Are you saying that Zanfel works,
or doesn't?
You write, "the specific active ingredient that does all the magic"
which leads me to believe that it is effective.
I'd appreciate learning if this was your intent.
Thanks in advance.

To follow up... Yes, Zanfel works well. I have found it best for use when cleaning with Tecnu has not worked and a reaction to poison oak appears. I do note that it contains some ingredients that may cause an allergic reaction for some people.

I got a nasty bout of poison ivy myself, and I found that Zanfel worked well for me. I too have been researching the ingredients of Zanfel to determine if there is a cheaper alternative (possibly from a combination of other products).

I found Zanfel's patent application - it is #20020183284. You can access it from http://appft1.uspto.gov/netahtml/PTO/srchnum.html.

In the description, they mention a hand cleaner made by "Redmond Scientific", which I believe is now http://www.meangreen.com . They mention this cleaner was found to be somewhat effective with removing urushiol. MeanGreen hand cleaner has the polyethylene scrubbing beads in it, too.

The patent application talked about a combination of an ethoxylate and Sodium Lauroyl Sarcosinate as being the active ingredients. Does anyone know which of the Zanfel ingredients is the ethoxylate?

Oops. In the previous post, the hyperlink to the US patent office has a period on the end, which causes the link to break. Try this, instead:
http://appft1.uspto.gov/netahtml/PTO/srchnum.html

Then, type in 20020183284 for the patent application number.

OK after more research I found out that nonoxynol-9 is the ethoxylate. BTW, I found a bunch of literature on the web about how bad nonoxynol-9 is for the environment. It doesn't biodegrade well, and it mimics estrogen.

I used the product for the past few days and although it appears to relieve the itching for a while I was surprised that the quantity of product seems to be considerably less that what you are lead to believe. I sent this email to Zanfel a few min. ago.

"According to the label there is enough product to treat approx. 15 "patches". The directions also say to use 1 1/2".

I did that faithfully and there was enough product to treat only six times. There were several "air bubbles" or dead spots while I was squeezing the tube.

Going by your literature 15 patches at 1 1/2 inches would yield approx. 22 inches of product.

My tube produced approx. 9 inches. I didn't have product to treat even half of what you stated.

What's with that?"

Yes, Zanfel is rather expensive for the amount of product you receive. I wonder where the cost is? Note the comments above by Bill regarding the ingredients. There doesn't appear to be anything exotic and expensive.

Maybe Zanfel is taking advantage of people when they have gotten to the "gone crazy itching" stage and would pay anything to stop! :')

I bought Zanfel on the recommendation of a friend. I followed the instructions carefully. The Zanfel was a disappointment. It did a little smoothing perhaps- as would a facial scrub with granules. Zanfel instructions indicate that it will work on all but systemic cases. My case is not systemic and the product did not prove successful for me. I applied it three times over the course of several hours...as the instructions indicated repeat might be necessary.(I was already taking benadryl for the itch and therefore was looking for some subsidence of the rash/swelling /soreness/blisters etc.). At the most it seemed like a gentle way to scratch without doing further damage. I can't recommend Zanfel however...and it cost me more than the prednisone prescription I now have and doctor visit combined. More scientific information should be on its way - The Berkeley Wellness web site indicates that clinical trials are underway but no results reported yet.

Unlike mkr, I did get relief and bought 4 tubes in all. Perhaps my question wasn't clear though, Hans.

Even though it's awfully expensive and even though they might be taking advantage of us (because, thankfully it did work for me) how do we know that we are getting the quantity we are paying for? The second tube had no more product than the first tube so it probably wasn't air or mis-filled. My email to them (as posted above dated 8/03) has not been answered.

Lee - Good question about the quantity of product received. It would be interesting to weigh the tube when full and later when empty of all product. That would verify if they are providing the specified 1 ounce of product. If the package contains the correct amount then the label and application of the product is misleading. Let us know if you get a reply from Zanfel.

For those of you that have pondered "how much is inside" a packaged product, I must point you to http://www.cockeyed.com/inside/howmuchinside.html

Cheers!

I just had to add this link http://www.poison-ivy.org/ . If you're not shy about nasty poison oak/ivy photos then click on "The Grody Poison Ivy Skin Rash Hall of Fame Slideshow". Yuck!

I came across your chain of mail on Zanfel. I'm currently trying it and do not find it very effective on my Poison Ivy. I have found a site which sells it relatively inexpensively, for those of you who like the product. Go to http://store.yahoo.com/physlabs/601097.html and you'll find they sell it for 29.70 plus shipping. My local CVS got me for around $42.
Serge

A few years ago I ran across a product called IMMUNEOAK.Not sure of spelling. It was packed in vile form.It was taken by mixing with water and drinking it.What it did was made you immune to poison oak up to a point where the rash was very small or not at all even with heavy exposure.Have you heard of this product?

Cherie - I'm not familiar with the product you describe but it sounds like a homeopathic remedy. I would be careful with those 'remedies'. Here's a good site with more information on poison oak and also homeopathic remedies:

http://waynesword.palomar.edu/ww0802.htm

- Hans

Some insight from someone who gets poison oak in a bad way.

I've had both extremely bad poison oak and poison Ivy. As far as which one is worse, I'd say they are both equally as bad for someone is as reactive of skin as mine. The Ivy rash covered my face and required a Prednisone shot that seemed to work but I can't even imagine the oak on my face, so that might be a little worse because of the worse blistering from the oak that I get. All I'm really sure of is that they both itched...badly.

None of the remedies have worked for me that well, and I have used them all. I went into Rite aid and bought every single product available.

My comments on the Zanfel are positive...but so are my comments on the Ivy Free. They are both similar products which are 'cleansers' as described above. They both have the polyethylene beads (or granules) which I believe is the key. The difference is that the Ivy free is half the price for 1.5 oz, when the Zanfel is 1 oz. The Ivy free also comes with some hydrocortisone gel which doesn't help, and which I don't even use anymore.

That said, out of all the variants that I tried, these were the only two products that seemed to give me any relief from the itching. I did combine their use with some of my other home methods including salt, pleanty of cleansing and cool air.

Even then, the iritating rash and their blisters persist.

The prednisone is the sure fire way, but the side affects are riskier than the other methods...and as I've eluded to, some doctors are reluctant to prescribe this.

I've visted doctors time and time again, and the answer they give me is always the same...take this topical 1% hydrocortisone cream. On the fourth doctor that told me this, I demanded the prednisone.

My advice if you are highly allergic like me: if it's really bad, go right to the dr. get the prednisone shot, but if you can spot it quickly, use a product that contains polyethylene beads and keep the area as clean and dry as possible. and wash all of your clothes with Tecnu...that stuff works to wash away the poison...it just doesn't relieve the itching.

I checked out Serge's website for the price for Zanfel from Med Shop Express. $29.70 plus $6.95 for shipping (rip off) -- so the price ends up being $36.65. Cheaper than CVS -- but not that much. And - it works really well for me even if the case has gotten to the "thick skin" stage. So when I'm " an-itchin' and a-scratchin' all over the place" I'll pay the few extra bucks to have it right away. The manufacturer really knows they've got you where it hurts (or itches!)
Anne

Nice breakdown of the ingredients. Unfortunately Zanfel was $36.95 + tax wasted for me.

Just adding my 2 cents here. I am glad to see I am not the only one out there to purchase such a high priced item for such an annoying rash...the need for sleep drove me to the store to try this product. After reviewing what everyone wrote here is what I was thinking. After using the product last night for the first time & it took away at least one third of the irritation, I was wondering how this syuff worked. I was about to research the ingredients & found this site first... thanks Hans for doing the research for me. So anyway, I was thinking how closely this product appears to be like St. Ives Appricot Scrub...making me wonder if I may just be cleaning my skin well which is what is giving me the relief????? HMMMMMM. Now after checking this site out I am nearly convinced that is what we are doing & paying through the nose for it. What a shame a company is making soooo much from the consumer on a product that is not even tested or FDA approved, they should be ashamed of themselves. I will have to give St Ives a shot at relieving the irritation & see what the results are. Has anyone out there tried the St Ives on a poison i/o/s rash? What was the result? Thanks for offering a great way to chat to so many folks about such an annoying rash. I will also check how many 1 1/2 inch streams I get from one tube & write to the company with my results on that (thanks Lee).

I meant to say it took away 2 thirds of the irritation after the first use. Sorry folks.

OK, I tried the Apricot Scrub a few hours ago. Here is mt opinion of the comparison:
1) Apricot Scrub was not as gentle in the rash. Causing minor discomfort (maybe i rubbed too hard)
2) It eliminated the itch, but not as well as Zanfel.
3) The Apricot Scrub seems to have left me with a different (much less mild) itch.
4) If money was a major concern for me I would surely use the scrub over the WAY OVER PRICED Zanfel.

I will try the scrub at least on more time, scrubbing softer, & if the result varies drastically I will post the results.

Best of luck to all my fellow sufferers.

This 'conversation' is much appreciated, as is any product that helps in the short term without longterm nasty side effects!

People should know that Prednisone can be very dangerous.

What about Zanfel? I've found nothing conclusive, but a look at the product ingredient descriptions at the Environmental Working Group's "Skin Deep" website indicates reasons for concern and cites scientific studies to back them up. (The site is quite a resource for checking out any of your bodycare products) Here are a few tidbits to add to the fine ingredient descriptions at the top of this thread:

- Sodium Lauroyl Sarcosinate is a "penetration enhancer" that may possibly contribute to the creation of carcinogenic nitrosamines.

- Nonoxynol-9 is extremely toxic to aquatic life, which is bad news if people are rinsing Zanfel off in ponds and streams.

- Disodium EDTA
(Disodium Ethylene–Diamine–Tetra–Acetate) is a penetration enhancer.

- Triethanolamine may form carcinogenic nitrosamines.

Will I use Zanfel? My inner jury is still out. I just wish there was more research on these ingredients individually AND, importantly, on the synergistic effects they may have when combined. Maybe we'll get that kind of research if we keep asking.

Thanks.

Good information Philip! Here's the link "http://www.ewg.org/reports/skindeep/" for the Environmental Working Group's Skin Deep website that he mentions.

Spermicide with N-9 works like Zanfel at a fraction of the price. It's the N-9 that does the trick. Does anyone know about the chronic effects of using this drug? I get PI at least 5X a year, even though I am careful about exposure (pets make it difficult!).

Unfortunately, I'm suffering from a poison oak rash now. I've used Tecnu for the last couple of years and it generally works if used within about 3 hours of exposure. Once the rash breaks out it takes about 3 weeks to disappear.

I was looking at the Zanfel and Sumactin. I've not tried either. Has anyone tried Sumactin (www.sumactin.com)? The ingrediants listed are:

Jewelweed – The active ingredient in Jewelweed is a chemical called lawsone. This substance has been proven to bind to the same molecular site on the skin as poison ivy, oak and sumac bind to. Lawsone beats the poison ivy, poison oak, and poison sumac to the molecular site and blocks the toxin from entering.
Aloe – Aloe sooths the rash and sooths the burn.
Plantain – Plantain is an herb that controls the itching.
Soapwort – Soapwort cleanses the infected area and eliminates the toxins that cause the poison ivy, poison oak, and poison sumac rash.

I haven't heard of Sumactin. I have just heard about IvyStat which is from the makers of TecNu. It's described as a "Dual-Action Poison Ivy Exfoliant and Treatment comes in a two-step kit" http://www.teclabsinc.com/pro_ivystat.html . Less expensive than both Zanfel and Sumactin. Might be worth a try.

I know it is expensive, I know that $40.00 is the most I've ever paid out of pocket for a drug at a drug store, I know they are making tremendous profit.... but after seven days and having proceeded to the "leathery rash" stage all over my neck face and! genitals, I want my life back and if they figured out a remedy, bless them and their profit. Remember, we consumers are paying not only for all the remedys that work, but for all the research done and abandoned on things that don't work. The ingredients may not cost much but the "discovering" does.

I am using Tecnu as a cleanser and CalaGel as the anti itch solution. I still have the rash but not the itch. I am resigned to the fact the rash has to run it's course, but at least I am not suffering while it does.

The Zanfel was worth every penny of the $39.99. My 12 yr. old son had a terrible case of poison ivy on his face, eyelids, underarms, trunk -- you name it. Within five minutes of the showering/drying process, he had no detectible itch. The redness started to subside. This stuff works and is worth it not to have to ingest Benedryl and other steroids. I would recommend it in a heartbeat!

Because Zanfel worked so well for me, I did a little research on the web and found their patent, # 6,423,746. You can look up the patent yourself at www.uspto.gov. The chemistry, the way it all works, is in plain english and quite interesting too.

If you have a case of poison oak, find $40 and buy Zanfel, it's as close to a silver bullet as you're going to find. I know what it's like to suffer from poison oak, and how ineffective everything except Zanfel is once you have it.

THE ZANFEL POISON OAK ECONOMY

What would I pay to cure a case of poison oak? It depends:

a) Rash on one arm: $100
b) Rash on both arms: $200
c) Rash on chest: $300
d) Rash on back: $425
e) Rash on balls: $1,100
f) Rash on face: $1,103
g) Severe rash on face: $2,500
h) Severe rash on balls: $3,950
i) Severe rash on balls while traveling on business: $8,800
j) Severe rash on balls and getting married in 5 days: $36,500

Forutnately I only had case (i). I paid Long's Drugs (Marina, CA) $36.99 for a tube of Zanfel, which completely arrested the problem in two washings. I had never heard of this product before and was initially staggered by the price. I am SO GLAD I chose not to be cheap this one time ! After using Zanfel I had no itching, oozing, spreading - nothing except a lot of dry skin, and my private parts left intact looking forward to better days. I'll have to wait a week for the dry skin to heal but this is NO BIG DEAL after a week of torture.

With regards to Immunoak, it wasn't homeopathic, it was an over the counter remedy from about 2 decades ago. It worked...WELL. All the PG&E guys swore bye it. It was proactive, you took it before you went out and you just didn't absorb the oils, they would wash off. Pretty cool huh!

Well, problem was that after you got poison oak, taking immunoak just made the condition worse, you couldn't shed the poison oak as fast and it lasted longer. Well, dumb people would take it after the fact, and be worse.

Lawsuits took place

Violla...No more Immunoak.

Thanks Much all you attorneys

I was doing the same thing - looking at all the ingredients trying to figure out what it really is and why it costs so much. Apparently Sodium Lauroyl Sarcosinate is used to help the ingredients penetrate into the skin better, see http://tinyurl.com/3vcqn and C12-15 Pareth-9/nonoxyl-9 appear to be the clensers.

Beyond that the other listed ingredients all seem to be standard cosmetic gel contents/preservatives/stabilizers.

Being a suceptible guy living in the tulies I get poison oak at least once a month. Certain habits I follow minimize my direct exposure but I can't fend off my kids and pets all the time.
I too choked on the cost of Zanfel, and it DOES work, but I end up buying for the whole family because that stinkin' little tube doesn't go very far.
A little putzing around in my local Safeway pharmacy and I came with a combo that works just as well (for me and so far).
In the foot care section I bought Dr. SCholls exfoliating foot scrub. There are two kinds one a little more aggressive than the other, I got the sandpaper version. $5.99 for 5 oz.
The other buy was some Clearasil facial cleanser which lists some the same ingredients as ol' "Z" at $4.99 for 5 oz.
I have a current nasty case of the rash. I put equal dabs of each bottle in my hand and scrubbed away at the leathery sites as well as around my eyes as well as some other places I won't be specific about.
I got the same results as with the Z. Itching stopped, rash shrank overnight and I got to SLEEP!!!
I use the Clearasil as disinfecting soap to give the Scholls scrub (which feels like an astringent by itself) a little lubrication and dilution.
Let's see, 10 oz for $11.00. versus $390 for equivelent amount of Zanfel.
I think I see some light here. I tried a little topical cortisone, minor benefit. A coupla asprin help too if I'm really messed up.
My two cents.

I forgot, the Clearasil also contains salicylic acid which is another exfoliant. Gets rid of the urshiol bound epithelial skin cells.

Mike - Great information on an alternative to Zanfel. It sounds like you have found the right combination that works in the same manner. I'll pick up that combo and have it ready for the next unfortunate encounter with poison oak.

The folks at Tecnu have come out with a new product that is incredibly effective and less than half the cost of Zanfel. I bought it on Amazon it is $14.99 for 4 OZ. It is called Tecnu Extreme. It makes me think Zanfel is WAY overpriced.

I did the ImmuneOak, or some similar product about 20 yrs. ago, and haven't had a really bad outbreak of PI since, until now.

I had heard of Zanfel before but the price was fairly daunting. Heck, even Tech-Nu seems pricey to me. But, when I awoke at 7am this morning to find that my arm had approached the leathery state, I knew I had to do something about it. I went down to Walgreens and grabbed a package or Zanfel, grimacing at the $39.99 price tag.

While in line at the cash register, I decided that I just couldn’t stomach the price and flipped the box open with my thumb and slid the tube out of the package and into my sleeve and tossed the empty box into the candy racks under the counter. I would never do something like this in a mom and pop drugstore but Walgreens? Screw those capitalistic pigs.

Anyway, I followed the directions and rubbed the abrasive cream onto my leathery arm. It says to rub until the itching goes away but, I think it is more accurate to say that the itching will go away after you rinse. I had to do it twice because there was still some considerable itching after getting out of the shower and drying off. But after the second time, I honestly think the rash is on its way. I wholeheartedly recommend going down to your local Walgreens or other mega-drug store and stealing a tube of this! Great stuff!

If you are very sensitive like me, there is only one recipe to follow each time yu go to a place where there *might* be some poison oak:
1) remove immediatly your clothes after your hike, have spares in your car
2)wash hands and face asap with a cheapy like Tecnu
3)home, take a full shower with Tecnu and wash your hair too
4)if any doubt, wash with Zanfel
5)if within 12-24 hours the rash starts to spread, go directly to the hospital and ask for corticoids pills and hydrocortisone cream; wash with Zanfel

For post-exposure protection:

I've had great results using the waterless handcleaners that you can buy at the auto parts place (with or w/o pumice). I don't know where I heard that these cleaners would be as effective as Tecnu for post-exposure cleansing but they seem to work. These handcleaners may be the "Goop" sited by http://edhiker.home.comcast.net/poisonoak.html as having been compared in a study published in the Int. Journal of Dermatology 2000 Jul;39(7):515-8 and found to have 61% effectiveness compared to 70% for Tecnu.

For prophylactic protection:

ImmuneOak sounds an awful lot like something called Cutters Drops that were popular back in the 60's: you took increasing doses of this stuff to build up your immunity (and God help you if you were exposed to real poison oak during the desensitization period.) This stuff was also removed from the market, I think because of the possibility for mishaps and liability exposure.

For rash reduction:

Somebody here with an outbreak ought to try adding a bit of N-9 spermacide to the Dr Scholls/Clearasil combo and see if its effectiveness is increased. This concoction sounds too hilarious to pass up!

My husband today is suffering from poison ivy contracted 6 days ago. He found Zanfel ($39.99) 3 nights ago and it was a great relief. His forearms were red, oozing, and bumpy. The Zanfel relieved his extreme discomfort for one night and part of the next day.

Two days ago I cut about a dozen aloe vero leaves from a yard plant, peeled them and layed the long slices of aloe all over his arms then wrapped them with one layer of gauze. He had a good afternoon and night well into the next day. He used the Zanfel again this morning but came home from work at noon.

His arms are scarlet red. I just fixed a glass of ice water and salt. Soaked 2 mens handkerchiefs in it and laid them on his arms. This created a soothing effect and relieved the itching. Unfortunately the one tube of Zanfel only lasted him 2 washings. He is that covered with the rash.

I see in Sundays newspaper CVS has their counterpart of Zanfel on sale for $19.99, so I'll head over to CVS and get another tube.

This is all good fun. Read everything here and on a similar site and have come to conclusion that I just don’t know. Does ZANFEL work as advertised? Maybe, maybe not. It’s too hard to say in spite of the fact that so many swear by it. That bites, but after two tubes I could not honestly say one way or the other.

Through applying a very old and apparently very ineffective bottle of Tec Labs barrier cream and then trudging through several hundred feet of very thick poison oak (legendary stupidity), I have a massive case on all parts of my body with the exception of my feet. But it’s only the third day so the feet may look like the rest soon.

One would think that with an assault like that my doctor would want to help out. But no. He told me he wanted to be conservative and went on to tell me to go get some over the counter antihistamines and some cortazone cream. Surprisingly, I was not in the best mood at the time and probably lacked finesse in my response. Looking a bit hurt, he wrote up a prescription for a 12 day dose of steroids. Subsequent reading indicated the dose should have been for 21 days. The twit.

What I do know or do believe I know has worked for me in the past are the barrier creams and carefully administered hot water. But, as already noted, the barrier creams should be new and not years old. They are greasy and not cheap. But apply them to ALL parts of your body before venturing into poison oak. If you are as susceptible as I am, missing any part will be a mistake. Eye lids, behind the ears and of course genitals. Soft skin needs extra care because it seems to be penetrated more easily. I have used regular detergent to wash it off and the result was no poison oak. The special washing stuff may be better, I don’t know, dish washing liquid did the trick.

The hot water treatment works. It’s a little ridiculous when you are covered from head to ankle but it works. Over years of getting at least some poison oak a few times per year I have learned a best way to use this technique, for me. First, crank your water heater to high. Next if you don’t have one of those hand-held shower heads, get one. It doesn’t have to be fancy. In fact the cheap ones may be better. Plan this out because you don’t want to run out of hot water half way through. The hand-held sprayer is much easier to direct and also conserves water. Start out with warm and up the temperature slowly. The goal here is to heat the itchy skin to the point that it no longer itches or it starts to scald. You do NOT want to scald your skin, no matter how tempting. Scolding will only add to your misery. Move the spray around on your skin as though you were using the water to scratch with. Keep turning up the hot or down the cold in small increments. As you get to the hottest threshold, only adjust the tempriture in very small steps. And if you feel it is getting too hot, quickly move the sprayer away from your skin, instead of trying to re-adjust the temp with the faucets. You do not need a lot of water to do this. The sensation of spraying your itchy skin with hot water may make you go crazy but you would anyway if you didn’t do something about the itching. This treatment of hot water, carefully done, will concentrate the itching in a short space of time and you will receive relief for at least a few hours. Following up with cool and, if you like, cold water is a good idea.

Hope that helps someone.

I sure would like to see some authoritative clinical studies, but then who would be stupid enough to voluntarily break out in PI for the trials?!? As it is, this anecdotal information is much like the old Elephant Repellent joke: I've applied it twice and haven't seen a single elephant, thus I conclude it's quite effective at repelling them.

I'm currently on day 10 since exposure to p. oak, only 8 since the start of symptoms. I broke down and got a tube of Zanfel last night. A couple of comments:
1. $36.99 at Longs Drugs, highway robbery! Even if it works. They're taking advantage of us in our time of need and pushing their monopoly to the fullest.
2. Dosage instructions are inadequate; they should give a more precise analogy in 3 dimensions (e.g. "a disc the same diameter as the cap on the tube, 1/16 inch thick" or whatever), since a ribbon can be thick or thin.
3. I got two applicatoins out of a tube, but then I've got both arms, both legs and parts of my torso to deal with.
4. Highway robbery or not, I'll be getting some more today, because the application process is almost orgasmic! To finally get to scratch that crud is heaven, and the relief felt, albeit only temporary so far, is the best I've had so far.

ImmunOak was indeed produced by Cutter Labs in Berkeley, CA. What a shame they discontinued production. It was really great stuff. It's a shame nobody's been able to get the formula for home use, or to bootleg.

Well, I just broke down tonite and bought the Zanfel...Cost $39.99 at Rite Aid, but they had a sale, so I bought it for $29.99...I dont even know where i got poison..Im pretty sure I didnt touch the plant, but we live in the mountains in the woods, and my husband had it on his arm from working outside, a week or so ago...I could have got it laundering his clothes, or just touching something that had the oil on from his poison...I really only have 3 spots on my stomach, and a patch on my back..I think I have had it about a week or a little more..The blisters are scabby and seem to be healing, not oozing or anything, but the itchy and pain is driving me crazy, esp. the itching...I used hydrocortisone cream, Caldryl, and Benadryl tablets, but the creams didnt help the itching and sorenes...I used the Zanfel, and as I was doing it, it felt great and no itch, but after I rinsed, I noticed the itching came back, maybe not as bad..I have a feeling I didnt use enough of it..I may have only used 1/2 inch, rather than the 1 1/2 inch, and I dont think I left it on long enough...It says a minute...I am going to have to do it again before I go to bed to see if it really works...

Oh, this is hillarious. Myself, thought I had a case of the bed bugs until an allergist's nurse told me I had PI (what'd you expect? I am from Puerto Rico, well, now in the States). Anyway I've been scratching like crazy to the point of looking like a dog infested with fleas...

She told me to get Ivy Free but we had no luck at the drugstore. We were shown Z but ended getting the Rite Aid version. 27 dollars later all I feel is like I've given myself a good rubdown with GoJo. I too read the ingredients and to me it is nothing but a suspension of recycled plastic. I believe the abrasion opens the skin to release and rinse out the offending oil. I myself will try a fine scrub next time. After reading this I believe the next product that will be sold for a ridiculous amount is going to be water.

--"I am desperately thirsty"
-"I got the thing for you, just $29.50 a gallon"
--(reading out loud) H 2 0"

I just wonder how people with eczema/psoriasis deal with this as their skin is already lacking elasticity.

Also, why does the skin turns "leathery"?

I have read your Site with much gratitiude for the extensive focus on pi\po I found unfourtunatly that zanfel isn't available directly in canada though I have ordered it, it will take "14 to 30 days" long past the time when this batch of pi will be gone .In frustration I applied a generic shampoo and a generic hand cleaner that had some of the same ingredients as Z I got some immediet relief and good long term relief with this simple test ,I'm going to forge ahead and try and synthezise a Zanfel clone and call it Zinfindel from the base of Zan-infedel" with strong recommondations that one does'nt try to drink it. Poison Ivy forces the mind into some dangerous places doesn't it? I think I'll use that as my defence of a civil suit ever comes forward. As I would recommend to our clypto-zanfel artist Mark who was obviously temporarily out of his mind when he risked a a shop lifting charge for a little tube of hope for relief .Anyway from the Patent office here is the listed formulation in the application.I should have paid more attention in chemistry but Dr Sholls and spermicide in a mean green base here I come
****************************
"Thus, a representative composition for the inventive solution might be polyethylene granules, sodium lauroyl sarcosinate, nonoxynol-9, C12-15 pareth-9, disodium EDTA, quaternium-15, carbomer 2%, triethanolamine, and water. "
Cheers
Cliff

I have to say that I tried the Zanfel with little relief. I am going on week #3 with Poison Oak. I have gotten a steroid injection and am still taking Prednisone. I am also using Fluocinonide cream which is a topical steroid on the rash itself. I have found the only true temporary relief is using ice packs on the affected areas. I am concerned due to this going into week number three, how long does it take for this misery to go away. People typically say it takes 10 days. According to my doctor this is a systemic reaction. I took a fall and had direct contact with the bush.

Can anybody out there offer any advice for relief? I'm tired of taking steroids, they make me feel really weird.

Just one more thing to add, my rash was getting better, but in the areas it is healing there are other areas that are getting new breakouts. Is this normal?

Hello to all my fellow poison "plant rash" sufferers. I have read all the comments and home remedies and would like to offer my advice. As for myself, I have had 4 bouts of this bane from Hell, never really knowing which plant was the culprit, but I do know how maddening the intense itching can be and how horrid it can make you look & feel. Some of the home remedies I have read here are definitely harmful as your skin absorbs all those chemicals not meant for prolonged skin contact like bleach, ammonia, goo gone, etc. and could make you quite sick now OR in the future. Your liver will have to try to detox these chemicals and I would advise not to use ANY of them for your rash. I have found that FELS NAPTHA LAUNDRY SOAP in bar form is SAFE and is excellent for removing any kind of plant sap or oil from your skin after exposure and should be used after any questionable contact. This has always worked for me as long as I do it IMMEDIATELY after exposure. Last year I was so tired after 7 straight hours of hedge trimming, I just washed up with regular "antibacterial" liquid hand soap and I paid the price for my laziness--1 whole month of intense itching torture & ugly oozing blisters. I did not sleep more than 2 hours a night for 3 weeks from the itching. Hand towels soaked in ice water were the only things that brought some temporary relief. In the past I have tried calamine, calagel, benedryl, Iva-rest, cortisone, vinegar, tea bags, baking soda paste, aloe...none of these really worked well for itch relief. Keeping the area very cold is best if possible. Yesterday I was out in the yard & when I came inside I felt an itchy tingle on my wrist, and looked to find that familiar "red line" that you KNOW is the beginning of a rash from one of the big 3-poison oak, ivy, or sumac, and I knew I had to react right away. This time I wiped it with isopropyl alcohol and then rubbed some EMU OIL on it. It stopped itching in 1 minute and hasn't itched since! Today it is much lighter pink, without blisters, and NO ITCHING! So I am very impressed with the EMU OIL which has anti-inflammation properties. It is healing already and I can tell it will not blister over and ooze. As for the one comment about the Clearasil/Footscrub combo for already blistered skin, I would change the footscrub to just using SUGAR SCRUB which is easy to find or you can make your own. Your foot skin is much thicker and can tolerate rougher treatment. After rinsing & patting dry I would gently rub in EMU OIL to heal the raw skin and reduce redness. One of the benefits of the emu oil is it is like a first aid oil and goes through all the layers of skin with beneficial vitamins. It even makes scars and wrinkles go away. Chrsitine K. if you read this it sounds like you may have re-exposed yourself on the tender areas by contact with something that still has the plant poison on it...it could be clothing, your pet, or even your chair that you sat in when you had the poison on your skin. Try to remember what you did right before you got the first bumps. I know of a man that kept getting it on his face because his steering wheel of his car was contaminated with the poison, and of course he would transfer this to his face. Wipe down anything you touched with alcohol to cut through the oil.I hope this helps you and anyone else reading this in your time of misery!

Many years ago there was a liquid product that came with popsicle sticks and I simply can't remember the name. You would apply the liquid to the area infected and then rub vigorously with the sticks to irritate the skin. It burned a little, but felt blissfull while you legitimately scratched the hell out of the area. This stuff dried everything up over night like a little pack man eating up those dots. It was incredible stuff, and probably dangerous considering how it ate the poison up, and I'm sure that's why they took it off the market soon thereafter. Wish I had bought a ton of it. Any one remeber the name of this stuff and if, per chance, it is still available simewhere?

My boyfriend tried Zanfel last night but we were dissapointed when it did not help. He said it just burned. Has anyone experienced this?

Annie - I haven't experienced a burning feeling from Zanfel. The only irritation I noticed was from scrubbing on the areas where the poison oak had already ruptured the skin. It's possible that your boyfriend's skin is sensitive to the ingredients. Always test first with a small dose on a small area of skin to check for reactions such as that.

Hans, thanks for your reply. He tried it again last night and it did not burn. I don't know why it burned the first time.

July 14, 2005 07:11 PM

This worked repeatedly for me in stopping the itching of a bad but isolated case of Poison Oak under my forearms.

Very Hot Compresses (as hot a as you can bear without scalding) using a towel, wash cloth, or cotton sock and applied with a little pressure for 30 seconds to the rash and repeated five (5) times. This completely relieved the itching for 8 hours, didn't take as much time, or use as much hot water as using a showerhead spray. The latter works just as effectively if you use as hot as you can bear hot water without scalding and the heavy rather than light spray setting on the showerhead. When you initially apply the hot compresses or hot water, you will experience an initial increase in itching, but after repeated application under either method you will eventually reach a “flush” of no itching. Ahhhh!

This method does not appear to prevent or reduce weeping of blisters (in my case it was more like crying than weeping especially at the silver dollar size leather like rash on the underside of my right forearm next to the elbow) and may actually increase weeping, but it controls the itching 100% for long periods of time.

Whether this method has any deleterious effects or aids/prolongs healing has yet to be determined, but it controls the itching 100% for long periods of time (up to 8 hours or more.)

I tried ZANFEL after 7 days from contact and needed two (2) consecutive 3 minute washings as prescribed to eliminate the itching for only 4 hours and did not want to scrub again due to the tenderness of the skin from the prior 2 back to back washings. (I am still evaluating its efficacy.) I instead “shower headed” the forearms with hot water and got complete relief from the itching.

I’m still experimenting with “healing” topicals. There has to be a natural or generic solution to this NASTY NASTY affliction!

Barry bearsf@pacbell.net

Last year I vigorously applied a locally made spray of Jewelweed (with other plant extracts) for my poison ivy. It didn't seem to work, and I ended up taking an oral steroid. I got a small poison ivy rash this year, and after succumbing to scratching and opening the blisters, I applied the jewelweed. Remembering how it didn't work last year, I immediately applied some hydrogen perxoide just for the heck of it. It immediately made the skin dry and seal up, permanently relieved itching. It was miraculous, and the area continued to heal without any symptoms. I doubt it was the combination of jewelweed and hyd.peroxide, but I thought I'd mention it to be accurate. Anyone try hyrdogen peroxide on open blisters?

If Zanfel does not work you should move immediately to Tecnuextreme. It is so much cheaper and it works better. Brand new product from the same company that makes Tecnu.

I find zanfel to be the most effective solution, but too expensive to use for as often as I get PI. This weekend I tried the only thing in my garage to address a new case - GOJO hand cleanser. Seems to work about as well as the clearasil/dr. scholls solution (but i'm much more likely to have gojo nearby). Just noticed steve mentioned waterless hand cleansers above. Definitely a good first line of defense. I have since stocked all my bathrooms and kitchens with emergency gojo reserves.

Everyone should be aware that steroids can destroy your vision. Steroid medications like topical creams, shots, and allergy inhalers are associated with central serous retinopathy, (sometimes called chorioretinopathy), in which a blister forms under the retina. The sometimes-subtle blurring of vision is on ly one symptom; even after the fluid subsides, there is a permanent loss of color perception and contrast.

Some literature makes it sound as though CSR resolves itself in most cases and the victim is just fine afterward. This is outdated and simply wrong. Very specific studies have proven that permanent damage always remains.

You should avoid steroids unless they're the last resort and you deem the benefits more important than your vision. Tell your doctor and MAKE SURE you know what's in your medicine.

Thank you, everyone, for your comments. I frequently get poison ivy from my cats who are indoor/outdoor. Everyone tells me to just keep them inside, but I don't have the heart. I've been through so many remedies, I can't list them all. Something that works great for me when I first get it is to take Beta Glucan, 200mg several times a day. Beta Glucan builds up the immune system. However, this time around, I have it all over and I've been through 3 bottles already and can't seem to keep up as it is getting expensive (it's about $13-$14 for a bottle of 30). I bought Technu and have been washing with that twice a day and got some Benedryl Extra Strength spray, but, after reading everyone's comments, I think I'm going to try Mike's suggestion of Clearasil and Dr. Scholl's Exfoliating Foot Scrub. Thanks to those also who mention the dangers of taking Prednisone. I've taken it several times and the side effects are pretty bad. Thanks again..Lori

I am laughing at some of these descriptions because I am suffering now, and do every year. This year was worse - actually handled the vines, cutting and moving. Tried Zanfel first. It did seem to help dry, and legitimize the scratching but certainly no cure - I think mine was too far gone. Went the prednisone route - two consecutive doses. I am at day 18. I still have some itchy spots and of course lots of red scars.
The itching is not as widespread, but it is still there.
Today I am trying to detox with rhus toxicodendron and I think I am itching worse so perhaps it will work.
I was relieved to see the reports of doctors not wishing to prescribe the steroid - I thought it was just my area. But when you have a systemic exposure, what recourse? All this topical stuff is fluff. So far this year, I've spent $148 trying to get cured. This is America and they can't find a remedy for urishol?

Hello folks,
Just thought Id offer my .02 Ive got poison oak all over both arms..and Im simply too damn cheap to cough up the 30+ bucks for the zanfel. So instead, I bought some "Gold Bond" medicated powder, with the active ingredients zinc oxide and menthol. Is the itch still there? YES! Is it somewhat improved? YES! I applied it liberally, and ofcourse it turned both of my arms a nice alabaster. There is also the pleasant aroma. Im as much of a crybaby about suffering as anyone, but I flat out refuse to allow some rip-off company to take advantage of my suffering. I'll wait it out for the 14-20 days if I must. If youve got it on your face or genitals, see a doctor..otherwise, grin and bear it. Do what ya can with what ya got...and resign yourself to the fact that its going to take atleast 2 weeks before you see the end of it.

After reading on this page that salicylic acid might be beneficial, I went out and bought some Stridex pads. Within an hour or two of applying the Stridex to the affected areas (both arms from shoulder to wrist), I got intense stomach cramps, faintness, sweats, and diarhea. I tried rinsing the affected areas to remove any residual Stridex, and the cramps soon stopped. SO, be careful before applying alot of salicylic acid to large areas of poison-oak affected (possibly broken) skin. A remedy that is safe to apply to small patches of acne may not be safe to apply to large areas of poison oak.

Robin - That's an interesting allergic reaction to salicylic acid. Although possible, be sure you aren't blaming the wrong source. I did a quick search and found the following information:

"Do not apply salicylic acid and sodium thiosulfate topical to large areas of open, broken, burned, or infected skin without first talking to your doctor. Large areas of damaged skin may allow more medicine to be absorbed by the body, possibly resulting in side effects."

Source: http://www.drugs.com/MTM/salicylic_acid_and_sodium_thiosulfate_topical.html

So applying it as you did might have been the cause. Of interest though is that most serious allergic reactions to it are rare. Some symptoms of a serious allergic reaction are shortness of breath; closing of the throat; swelling of the lips, face, or tongue; or hives. Someone experiencing any of these conditions should seek emergency medical attention or contact a doctor immediately.

I have also used Tecnu Extreme, the latest improvement to Tecnu which I had previously used without fail for 25 years. Tecnu Extreme is amazing! Just as good as Zanfel but you get 4 ounces for $14.99. You can also print off a $2 coupon on their website, www.tecnuextreme.com

I've gotten PI and PO many times and some intense cases in all the wrong places. researched and have tried every over the counter,perscription,and folk cure that seemed plausable. 1-immuoak could do severe liver damage. native americans used a similar technic; they ate the leaves to build immunity (don't!). repeated exposures cause a sensitivity

(opposite of an immunity). 2-cortsone injection with predisone orally works but you might have to find a doc willing to give injection. predisone will make you feel strange. don't devate from the decending dose schedule. 3-tecu(have not tried tecnu extreme)as with any wash to remove method, the sooner the better,and if an hour or so passes from exposure time anything is pretty ineffective. 4-the exception being zanfel.tried it on two occasions at first sign of rash and was amazed at itch relieve and rash dissapaering. I think it's overpriced but if you consider missing work and going crazy with itch the alterntive, well... I could tell about my research and into other so called "treatments or cures" but no point really. 5-antihistimes (benedryl) oral and topical and colloidal oatmeal bath give a little itch relief. scott

OK Guys, I read all you comments -- went to Walgreens, chose Tecnu Extreme over Zanfel because of the price. If it didn't work, I could come back for the Zanfel. I had a pretty convincing outbreak of poison ivy on my neck and face, along with scattered spots everywhere else. My eyes were starting swell closed, I had rashes and bubbles, but not oooozing. Extreme seems to be working pretty effectively, and after not quite 24 hours the outbreak is definitely in remission. I'd recommend it.

I too am sufferring from a small brush with poison oak. I only had a small patch on one arm, so I just washed with soap and water. After 8 days, it was getting worse and spreading. I found this site, and decided to try Tecnu Extreme. I decided on this product due to the price and my past good experiences with Tecnu (regular) to remove oils after exposure. Tecnu Extreme was $15, less $2 with their website coupon. It claims to remove the poison oils, cure itching, and speed healing. I've been using it now for 3 days and I think it does all three very well! The thick rash on my arm is healing very rapidly, and after each use I had almost no itching for about 6-8 hours; great relief. I can't compare to Zanfel because I've never used it. Unfortunately I've had many cases of both poison oak and ivy over the years, and this is the best product I've ever used for an established rash. (I would still trongly recommend regular Tecnu to clean off the poison oils as soon as possible after suspected exposure, and put all clothers immediately in the laundry. An ounce of prevention is still worth a pound of cure.)

I stumbled across this site while researching Zanfel, a product I discovered after having spent @ $50 on other meds, including tecnu, Ivy Off, and Caladryl (and assorted band aids and bath salts and gauze, etc). I learned more from the links on this one site than all the other websites put together, so I just wanted to say thanks for helping me make an informed decision. I'm skipping Zanfel for now but filing it away - and hoping it, like the poison ivy, will soon and forever be a very distant memory! :)

I've been looking for the miracle cure for poison oak. After getting it all year long from our dogs, I feel like I'm pretty much a poison oak expert.. But without a cure. I've been looking online and came across Sumactin. Only available on line through a super shady pharmaceutical company.Check out this link about the shadyness..
http://www.licerx.com/selmedica-healthcare.htm

Although they use about 5 all natural ingredients.
Jewelweed – The active ingredient in Jewelweed is a chemical called lawsone. This substance has been proven to bind to the same molecular site on the skin as poison ivy, oak and sumac bind to. Lawsone beats the poison ivy, poison oak, and poison sumac to the molecular site and blocks the toxin from entering.
Aloe – Aloe sooths the rash and sooths the burn.
Plantain – Plantain is an herb that controls the itching.
Soapwort – Soapwort cleanses the infected area and eliminates the toxins that cause the poison ivy, poison oak, and poison sumac rash.

Sounds like it would work though. Does any one have any experience with this product? I don't want to get ripped off.
One product that I've had luck washing oil off is Maries poison oak soap. An all natural soap with oatmeal to exfoliate the skin and work the soap in. It works great to wash the oil off your skin. After I have the rash I even moisten the soap, later it on to the rash and let it dry. It kind of dries like calamine but seems to stop the spreading and dries the oozing out pretty well. It's not a cure for the rash but it seems to help the healing process. Prednisone has been my friend in the past several times. I've had Dr. Friends prescribe me prednisone and keep a spare bottle around. I've even taken small doses, like one pill a day if I think a couple of rashes may turn into an outbreak. This seems to work for me as well.
Good luck!

HI Tom,
I can't take predinose, so I was extremely grateful to find
sumactin. It not only works, but you can spray it. It is helpful
in that you can reach places like your ears or awkward to reach
places, and you can spray as needed. I keep it at work and at
home, its a gift from heaven. I have also used zanfel, it worked
for me.

I am hoping to find a way to become less allergic. It makes
me not only have a rash, but just feel terribly terribly sick.

I'm about to order another bottle of sumactin since I gave the
rest of mine to someone who lives near a lot of it. Only
down side is it needs refrigeration.

Tom - Good information. But I would like to note that I would not recommend taking prednisone as a deterent without a doctor's recommendation. It can have bad side effects on your system. If you haven't already, please talk to a doctor about the possible effects of taking it.

------------------------------------------------------

Cindy - There really isn't any way to become less allergic to the poison. Once your body has learned the "signature" of the poison it reacts more and more. You can help to reduce the risk by applying barriers, washing after contact, etc.. There are a few "blocking" lotions on the market that you apply before venturing out.

Guess What I just got poison oak again. This time on my head. I had long hair to my back. The oak was so itchy that I had to buzz the hair! I did get back from my doctor. She said that prednisone for the most part, and its side effects mostly effect people that have to use it on a daily basis. I've been trying to pay attention about any side effects, ie. mood swings, grumpyness, loss of sleep, and others. I havent noticed any ill effects on my body, but everybodys individual chemistry is different. Just like I'm more susecptable to poison oak than other people.
As far as preventative measures goes... My bathroom has Maries poison oak soap, Two bottles of technu, Tea tree oil W lavender(seems to help a bit) Sarna (an anti itch lotion) Calendula lotion (Marygold), Old used bottles of Zanafel (with a drop or two left) and now Technu Extreme.
I'd have to say after reading your forum, that the advice to purchase Technu Extreme @ 14.99 was a really good tip! after two applications the rash has gone down considerably and the weeping started to dry and scab over! Yeay!
The poison oak is on my property and everywhere surrounding my property in groves! (Columbia River Gorge!) If you've been here you know what I'm talking about. We try our best to keep our dogs out of it but you have to watch their every move (off their runner) My girlfriend dosent get it and loves to take the dogs for walks (sometimes off the leash...) I love the dogs but just dont really pet them except after baths. If I do pet the dogs I always wash my hands right after. I have friends that keep a bottle of rubbing alchol at their bathroom sink and rinse and dissolve the Urisol oil.
My doctor also recommended the steriod shot in your ass. She said it would help me treat my current poison oak and it would help fend off other contact of poison oak for up to three months. She said that a lot of wildland firefighters get the steriod shot before fire season. Could you imagine fighting a forest fire and inhailing burning forest and poison oak!
I elected to take the shot.. We will see in the next three months. Thanks for the Sumactin testimonial Cindy, I may have to try some in a couple of months! Good luck on a miricle cure for oak!

Tom - I got tagged again with PO and have been doing the itch and scratch. I did a mountain bike race that was known for the quantity of PO on the course. So planned and I brought the Tecnu. Right after finishing I cleaned up with the Tecnu head to toe. I also tossed the clothes in a bag and later off into the wash.

Well, I still got one good patch of PO on my arm and a few spots on the legs. Argh. I guess I should try the Tecnu Extreme.

Btw - My friend was a forest fire fighter. He inhaled so much PO smoke that now all he has to do is walk past some PO and he will react to it.

okay Im not sure about any thing I have a 13 year old son who has poison something he has bubbles between his fingers can we pop them if we run his fingers under water. And what can I put on him to stop the itching, what actually works.

Wow! There is a lot written here. I didn't know this site existed. I thought I was an expert on poison oak, since I have gotten its rashes from time to time over the last 55 years. Anyway, my treatment: TIDE POWDERED DETERGENT and hot water is the magic bullet for me. I take a small pile of Tide powder on my hand, add some water to make a paste, apply to a washcloth and rub the skin forcefully. Let it stay on a while so skin is quite slippery, rub some more with (comfortable) hot water, and wash away. Yes, it will leave your skin dry since it has removed its oils from the surface. That is why it works. I discovered this method it works about 30 years ago when I was using to remove the black grease, dirt, and oils from my skin when I worked on my car. It worked better for me on the grease than any other soap or hand cleaner. So I figured it should work for an oil that I can't see (the urishiol of poison oak). If I do the treatment with a few hours of PO exposure, I don't get the rash except maybe at a few scratches. I do cross country hikes, race events (orienteering), and mountain biking in California and contact the plants. I have used Fels Naptha also; I don't think it works as well, but it is a useful intermediary. I'll wash with it and cold water on site to remove some of the oil until I can get home. If do get a rash later because I didn't know I was contacted or a long time elasped, I use a hot water treatment. I do apply very hot water from the faucet until the itching is relieved. I may have some skin flake off a couple days later because it got burned a bit, but no itch.

Well, I'm back in CA after a 20 yr absence and now so is my poison oak. I'm 55 and used to get PO so bad as a child I'd lay in bed for days with my eyes completely swollen shut and my mother putting corn starch plaster on me (didn't help at all). Cortizone shots were the only thing that helped. I got it so many times I became hypersensitive and if I got a sunburn or some other skin irritation it would turn into poison oak and spread over my entire body. Immunoak helped me, I first got it from a friend that worked PG&E and then they started selling it over the counter. Very sorry it is no longer available. Another thing that helped was drinking milk from my goat that ate a constant diet of PO. Between the immunoak and goats milk I would only get small patches like a normal person, hardly noticable to me with my history. I had bought the goat for my first born in 1971 and when I went to the dairy to buy the goat I saw that PO was very prevalent at the site. The owner told me it would help build an immunity. For someone that is not hypersensitive I would think it might work really good. I happened to have a couple acres completely covered in PO. The milk is really good if you get the right kind of dairy goat. I would serve it to guests and they wouldn't even notice any difference. Got about 1/2 gal per day, perfect for a small family. Goats are pretty fun to have around and do a fine job in keeping the PO trimmed back (way better than me using the clippers and a rake). I hear there is now a good Round-up that kills it. Good luck to all of you sufferers. Thanks for the good information. You've answered my question of why I can't find Immunoak anymore. Does anyone know if dermatologists have allergy shots for PO? I don't have a place for a goat, anymore. I'm tempted to encapsulate small bits and eat it, like the previous poster mentioned the indians may have done.

Jessica - Sounds like your son might have poison oak or ivy. Normally, at that stage you need to use a product like Zanfel. The oils that contain the poison have probably already been washed off so you need a treatment rather than a cleaner. Also, I don't know if there are any issues with treating children. I would recommend talking with a dermatologist.

----------------------------

Steve - Interesting about drinking goat's milk from a goat that consumes PO. But you also describe taking Immunoak at the same time. So it's not possible to know if it was one or the other that helped you.

Now, your comment about eating small bits of PO makes alarms start ringing. I would *not* recommend eating small bits of PO!

The body treats PO as a toxin. As you have mentioned, you have become hypersensitive to PO. That's because the body learns to recognize and attack the poisons from PO. Eating it may cause a very dangerous reaction. Another commenter on my site mentioned trying this experiment and learning the hard way it does not work. You can not become resistant to PO. Do not even try.

I don't know if dermatologists have PO allergy shots. They will treat severe cases of PO with prednisone. But note that prednisone can have side effects. So it's not something to take without a doctor's supervision.

i need something for posion sumac i have had it for 5 days, and nothing is working, my doctor gave me 3 medcines and they arent working any suggetions, COMMENT PLEASE

Last winter I had a systemic reaction to PO; I was sick for 6-7 weeks, had to take a lot of time off from work (couldn't really wear clothes); took Prednisone which made me nuts (or maybe it was the sleep deprivation that made me nuts - I couldn't sleep while taking Prednisone, even with Benadryl, which usually knocks me out).

My question deviates a little from the treatment track . . . I live in a poison oak ridden area, and I do a lot of hiking. I've had PO before. I'm sure I'll have it again. Does anyone know what to do with the clothes you were wearing when you came in contact with the PO? Everytime I go hiking I do the requisite washing off and toss my clothes into a pile. The pile is growing. After this last bout I am terrified to just wash the clothes, wear them, and risk coming in contact with the oil again. At this rate I won't have any clothes left. Any clothes cleaning advice?

Oh, yeah. Any ideas about how to clean a silk sweater that requires dry cleaning would be greatly appreciated. (I put the sweater on just after the hike . . .).

I too have had poison ivy. I went to the store and bought cheaper stuff on the shelf and did not get relief and kept itching. I went back and wanted the itch to STOP after 3 days, I bought Zanfel after reading the package and calling the company. They were very helpful. I was told by the company and after doing reseach, that the oil "bonds" to the skin after 20 minutes and can not be washed off with soap and water. Soap and water will wash off the "loose" oil that is not bonded to the skin. Zanfel will relase the bond anytime so the oil can be washed off with water.
I followed the instructions EXACTLY and my itch stopped right away and did not come back. I also learned from doing research on dermdoctor that if the itch is gone the oil is off the skin.
I will not use anything else but Zanfel from now on. The price was 34.86 at Wal-Mart and was worth every penny to get the itch to stop.
Tecnu you have use over and over, Zanfel will stop the itch with one application and then let the body heal itself.

Anne - Washing your clothes with a detergent should remove the oils and poisons from the clothing. That is what I do and have had no problems. For silk, I should think dry cleaning would also work fine.

I live and hike in Norhern California, so get P.O. occasionally. Thanks to all for the best comments I've read to date. Now, I've tried this thrice (three different episodes) and it works and is cheap to try. Use a hair dryer to heat the rash till the pain is too much, or maybe slowly with less pain, and the itch will fade for up to 6-8 hours. SomeOne said it erases the histamines which take time to return. It doesn't cure, just fades the itch.
I also believe the medicos could adapt an immunosupressant to this miserable scourge for serious cases, but are too $$$ uninterested.

From one sympathetic itcher to another--Oh my, how I have laughed at this site (especially the "swipe a tube" post.) It has helped me forget the itching for just a few minutes. I, too, detest those who are grinning all the way to the bank as they take advantage of our collective miserable states & in our hour(s) of misery looking for the next cure or at least a few hours of relief.
I itch all over, even when there is nothing visible! Go figure.
IT'S ALIVE. Just below the surface waiting and waiting--then POW out pops some more. I too picked up the Zanfel and put it down because of the price. ( I had a RX waiting at the pharmacy counter for hydrocortizone) It's amazing-now I suspect everything I touch has the stuff on it. computer keys, mouse, steering wheel, "good lawd" where do I start wiping first. Have a place on the river here in Texas and I refuse to give up going there just because of this nasty stuff. I just think I will be more proactive about cleanliness.
I thought I was doing a good job of washing myself and clothes, but from the sound of it and my current round of PI it's obvious I haven't. TIDE huh. My mother used to say it will clean anything. That's worth a try, and I will also go buy GOJO, apricot cleanser, clearsil cleanser, technu extreme, etc. Boy, when I was a kid, I used to play around in the stuff. Just one more thing to hate about getting old!!!
I have to agree with Ed, we can put a man on the moon or Mars or where ever, but we can't find a safe cure for this stuff.

Great site...to share our common misery. I ran out of gas the other day and I found myself in the need to relieve myself. Spotting a nice large bush which blocked the view from the road, I got in real close to the bush so as not to flash the traffic passing by. The next day I woke up and immediately realized that I had met my old nemesis. This time I knew exactly where the meeting had occurred. Like most men, I am a huge miserable baby when it comes to get sick. So I begged my wife to go buy anything "poison ivy/oak/sumac" related. I went for the Zanfel instead of the generic because I knew that if the generic didn't work, I'd end up buying the Zanfel anyways.

The Zanfel actually seemed to make my breakout worse. I can usually keep myself from scratching because I know once I do...it just spreads like crazy on me. The Zanfel has those little sand-like granuales, so rubbing it on was akin to scratching...and that felt good. However, I don't think it did a thing for me and actually "activated" those areas that I had managed not to scratch.

So NO - I don't feel Zanfel worked on me at all...and NO - that little one ounce tube does NOT cover very much area.

So far I've tried Caladryl Clear (releived itching and didn't make me pink, Calmine Spray - (temporarily relieved itching, but made me very pink..stick to Caladryl), Benadryl pills - made me sleepy, don't know if the helped with the rash. Hydrocortizone cream - liberally applied, it seemed to relieve itching and kept the rash from spreading further.

After wearing sweat pants to run a quick errand and trying to cover up my neon pink legs (from the Calamine spray), I came back home with Huge leathery patches on my legs and my forearms.

We had some generic Walmart (Equate) apricot scrub with similiar type granuales as Zanfel. Since this was only a couple bucks, I took a shower and scrubbed liberally all over. The rash got a little redder and leathery from the rubbing. I then rubbed Sarna lotion in right afterword. The Sarna lotion offered immediate relieve from pain and itching and had a cooling feeling. About an hour later, the rashes on my forearms has gone down significantly.

So far it turns out the cheapest remedies are working the best.

I just ordered 3 bottles of Sumactin for $67 plus $28 overnight shipping. It's only available by phone/email.

This is only day 2 so I'll update when and if anything else works and after I try Sumactin.

From my past experiences, I believe the "drying" medicines only start working after the blisters and bumps are popped or are oozing. Popping these suckers, although theraputic and addictive at the time, kind of turns into a disgusting version of popping bubble-wrap. Once the blisters pop, the Caladryl works great for drying them up quicker.

By the way...So as not to make the same urination mistake in the future, I returned to the scene of the crime. After searching the internet for pictures, my nemesis turned out to be poison sumac. It grows just like a small tree and according to the geographic map of where it grows...it's not suppose to be in Denver, Colorado.

UPDATE-
I got the 2 bottles of Sumactin(not 3 like the operator told me) overnighted to me. I sprayed it all over and succeeded in getting wet. Since this product is almost exclusively water, it simply runs off or dries up quickly. Although the rash was not suppose to spread to new areas that weren't exposed to the oil - It spread like crazy, especially anywhere that clothing or skin rubbed.

I finally broke down and went to the doctor. She immediately prescribed 15 days of Predisone (5 days @ 3 pills - 20 miligrams each, 5 days @ 2 pills, and 5 days @ 1 pill. By day 3, my rash had started to subside. By day 8 it is was virtually gone. Believe me, I had a SEVERE rash and my legs, arms, and waist. In the past I never tried steroids and I would continue to have a rash for weeks.

Aparently, I am EXTREMELY sensitive to the oil in these poison weeds from hell. As I said in my earlier post, I simply got in close to a bush to relieve myself so I wouldn't flash the public. Contrary to the information I've found on the internet, I was exposed even though no leaves or branches were broke or bent and I barely touched the leaves. Also contrary to what I've read, my rash spread SIGNIFICANTLY to new areas of my body that weren't exposed several days after my exposure. These new areas were primarily areas where clothing rubbed or subject to sweating. I took very hot showers and scrubbed vigorously, but it just kept getting worse.

To sum up...my recommendations are - Shower alot, use Sarna lotion with a fan, TAKE STEROIDS(prednisone) IMMEDIATELY - don't wait for it to spread!!! ZANFEL sucked, Sumactin sucked, everything else didn't seem to help.

GOOD LUCK TO YOU ALL!!!

Hans:
Thanks for this site. I am no less confused, but feel better-educated thanks to your site. I am just starting to use Zanfel today (after reading about it on another site), and if it works at all, it will be worth the $35.95 that Wal-Mart charges. We all know that what works for one of us may not work for another. At least now I have some alternatives to try. I will post again if there is any benificial follow-up information.

I've used zanfel previously, and had gotten a postitive result (after about two thorough washings).
I am now cambating a case of urushiol exposure, and this time even have severe burn-like patches of the rash. After the second wash I feel some releif, but still the itching is there.

Oh, and I almost forget to mention that frequently smoking some good marijuana during the healing period seems to staunch the pain a bit.

I have a case of poison ivy with a patch on my skin that actually turned purple. I've put water, as hot as I can stand on it, followed by an application of absorbine jr. Yes, this will burn it, but, it does relieve the itch for a couple hours. Been using shampoo to shower with, as shampoo is made to remove oil. Been doing this for a week now, but on occasion a new bump will arise. Found out hitting it like this does keep the new stuff from rashing and lets it heal faster. Only problme now, one of the bumps on my finger is infected, so I'll end up at the doctor's tomorrow. Right now, I'm treating it with ichthammol ointment to help draw out the infection. Shall see what happens in the morning.

No. No. There is no secret ingredient...Just read the patent for Zanfel at http://www.freepatentsonline.com/6423746.html and scroll down to the bottom of the page where is states the following:

"It has been discovered that a hand scrub product manufactured and sold by the Redman Scientific, Company of Dallas, Tex. can alleviate the signs and symptoms of urushiol induced contact dermatitis. The product has been sold for approximately twenty years, and is known to be a safe, gentle hypoallergenic product. The product has been sold as an industrial hand cleaner and has never heretofore been known to be effective against urushiol toxicity. It has only been promoted as a hand cleaner.

Chemical analysis and research by the inventors has revealed that two of the component parts of the Redman product are central to its effectiveness as a treatment for urushiol induced contact dermatitis: an ethoxylate and Sodium Lauryl Sarcosinate. The ethoxylate is a nonylphenol ehtoxylate. Unlike the ethoxylate of the Tech-Nu.RTM. product, the present invention's ethoxylate has the large octyl groups removed. In this way, the ethoxylate can "wrap" around the non-polar molecules of the urushiol. Further, the long chain moiety of the present invention's ethoxylate is only four carbons long, as opposed to ten. This feature also assists the ethoxylate in bonding to the urushiol more effectively. However, the ethoxylate itself is not capable of forming a complete micelle around the urushiol. The inventors have discovered that the addition of Sodium Lauryl Sarcosinate, the micelle is completed and the urushiol can be cleansed away from the skin. SLS also has a long carbon chain that can surround the non-polar portions of the urushiol. In addition, SLS contains a highly polar end that aids in surrounding the polar ends of urushiol and also in the invention's reactivity with water.

Thus, the combination of the ethoxylate and SLS create a large molecule that contains flexible non-polar groups and soluble polar groups. This permits the inventive composition to quickly and effectively surround the urushiol and then be rinsed away with water, a highly polar substance.""

Read the whole patent and it becomes quite clear. The "inventor" totally stumbled across this application for an existing product. I am going to purchase 64 oz. of Mean Green from Phoenix Industries (formerly Redmond Scientific) at http://www.meangreen.com/pages/pricing.htm and provide myself some itching and much needed monetary relief.

Zanfel has proven to be more effective than any other product for me, however, I will not pay $40 for one ounce when it takes two tubes to treat an average breakout.

Knowledge is Power. This is all public information. The Mean Green Product just can never be advertised or sold as a poison ivy treatment thanks to this patent, but it doesn't stop a person from purchasing and using the Mean Green product on their own.

The "inventor" is from my area and he did an article in the local newspaper about four years ago where he did state that he stumbled upon it by accident, however, he aluded to the microbeads as the secret ingredient, but after reading the patent in its entirety - you all know the truth.

The MSDS for the Mean Green cleaner lists the ingredients.
(http://www.meangreen.com/pages/msds.htm) It's clear it contains the polyethylene beads and ethoxylate, but it is not obvious that it contains the sarcosinate as described in the patent. The relevant section from the MSDS is listed below.

MSDS NUMBER: HS104
Original Date: March 23, 1988
Revision Date: October 06, 2005
Product Name: Mean Green Power Hand Scrub
(and private labels), (including MGL, FG, and OS)

Manufacturer: Mean Green Hand Cleaners

Section I: Production Information
Chemical Family: Synthetic detergent blend

Section II: List of Ingredients
CAS: None Inert Polyethylene Granules
CAS: None Water
CAS: 26027-38-3 Nonyl phenol ethoxylate ( Mol”y” )
CAS: 26027-38-3 Nonyl phenol ethoxylate ( Mol”y” )
CAS: 61788-48-5 Acetylated Lanolin alcohol
CAS: 137-16-6 Maprosyl L30
CAS: 139-33-3 Versene
CAS: 61789-40-0 Witcamide DG
CAS: None Food coloring
CAS: None Lemon-Lime Fragrance

I found that the Maprosyl L30 is actually the sarcosinate.

http://www.chemicalland21.com/arokorhi/specialtychem/perchem/SODIUM%20LAUROYL%20SARCOSINATE.htm

Broke out with poison oak 1 1/2 weeks ago. Started using Zanafel about 3 days ago, each morning and evening. My rash has continued to spread and that's what I thought the product could help me with. No dice. It helped with the itching...a tad. Actually, I found this sight looking for advice as to whether or not taking a warm/hot bath would be advisable? I love baths but have refrained from taking one as I think I heard somewhere that it can help spread the rash. Anyone know? Thanks, Greta

Greta - If the rash is spreading after 1.5 weeks then it's possible that you are coming into contact with the oils and poisons again. Have you fully washed the clothes, shoes, garden tools, or other items that came into contact with the poison oak/ivy? Otherwise, you might have a systemic case and you might cons